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As my subject line states the NTA, as Mark says in many posts, are developed to look at drugs services and not alcohol treatment/services.
Who on Wired In is here in the same position to cover alcohol, as Mark G from the NTA is helping, and answering questions on the drug side of things and seeing what’s being felt?
I have mentioned a few times – I see little around alcohol and would like to see more people speak out about alcohol and the recovery services around alcohol too.
Does anyone feel that alcohol is hardly seen discussed, and it’s killing so many people out there?. Sometimes recovery services around alcohol have different needs, and we have nobody here with a mouth to speak out, or are they here and not speaking?
I understand that many dislike separating alcohol and drugs. But there is a gap out there, and if people that feel alcohol and drugs need to be separate, then we have to fill that gap and support them too. Not just sit back and see them die on us due to not accessing services due to how they feel.
Possibly when people are in stable recovery they may come together but until then, and only when they feel comfortable, we have to open doors and services for alcohol only and drug only clients.
Happy and safe 2010 to all
Brian Morrison (Ex Service User)
Founder/Managing Director
@ Alcohol Peer Support Services
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Hi Brian – you ask a very good question. As a recovering alcoholic myself, I wonder too where the ‘powers that be’ are.
I do feel that alcohol has a good presence on this site in terms of people who have experienced, or are experiencing problems. But as for the services themselves? I really don’t know.
This is certainly something I will look into further – I will update you on progress – but until then, any answers out there?
Hello Brian,
I’m an alcohol practitioner.
I was in the drugs field for a few years before making the switch. I did it for some of the reasons you mentioned. I felt alcohol was overlooked, under-represented and it’s harm was rarely discussed with any great conviction. I worked in a prison for 3 years as a CARAT worker and the only interventions offered for people who drank were intermittent AA meetings (this was in stark contrast to the vast team of CARAT workers, detox nurses etc. on call for those with drug issues). I’m not suggesting that the drug team should have been reduced, I just wanted the alcohol problem to get adequate attention and resources. In fact, in the prison I worked, if the resources were provided in proportion to the number of drinkers vs. drug users then there would have been at least 7 dedicated alcohol workers to go with the 15 drug workers.
I have found that there is a lot of congruence in the work I do with alcohol using clients and the methods that succeeded with drug users. I see little reason why alcohol and drug agencies shouldn’t be one and the same.
There main barriers I’ve encountered when advocating this is that a lot of alcohol users refuse to be associated with “druggies” and hence wouldn’t use the same facilities.
My current employers have a very progressive approach to our service provision. We are commissioned for both alcohol and drugs work in a lot of areas, we are making real progress in family/support network practice and I feel that the lines between drugs and alcohol are fading in our organisation.
Pucker blog and comments, alcohol is a time bomb, we all know that! yet the NTA since formed in 2001 have in many ways gone round in a full circle and are now focusing more so as in the old days on Alcohol.
Maybe I am wrong – yet they can’t escape the escalating problem, already are going back to Quality and not Quantity with treatment approaches.
All a learning process, yet will the goverment etc ever get it right full stop?
This is where this site comes in and is so important, pick up and support all of us together. (Hope that makes sense?)
Hello Brian,
We have been working with alcohol clients and also people with a mixture of substances for a few years now and are steadily seeing that number rising. I think there has been some investment in alcohol services in a few areas but as you have said this is a difficult subject because of the legal status. It seems that they do not represent problematic use in many peoples heads because it is such a hard thing to define. Is drinking one glass a day every day a problem or is it 15 pints once a week. Speaking to many people it seems that the amount isn’t important and that the fact of the matter is the only important thing is how happy you are drinking……..hmmmm.
The other thing is i’m not sure there is such thing as an alcoholic.
Zack Allan
Intuitive Recovery
Whilst they both purport to safeguard our communities from addictive substances, the NTA and the ACMD both suffer from the same limitations.
They have a lot of attention on illegal drugs, just a little on alcohol and none whatsoever on pharmaceutical drugs.
When will vested interests allow the government to recognise that all forms of addictive substance usage are INTER-dependent AND that they ALL need much more attention and control than at present.
Furthermore, because logically “recovery” can only be humanely defined as a return to the natural state of relaxed abstinence into which 99% of the population is born, and because residential training in self-rehabilitation can achieve this for a total cost similar to the cost of 3 years of methadone “treatment”, why are these organisations still promoting and safeguarding substitute prescribing.
After all, it is only legalised addiction, which cures nothing, costs the taxpayers a fortune, fails to stop drug related acquisitive crime and makes nice profits for the psycho-pharms.
Kenneth Eckersley.
C.E.O. Addiction Recovery Training Services.
The NARCONON Addiction Prevention and Recovery Training Centre at Hastings accepts individuals addicted to all forms of addictive substances including both drugs and alcohol.
Registerd as a UK charity in April 1974 and technically associated with over 150 Centres in 43 other counties, betwen them they have many thousands of students who have graduated to long term abstinence, and as a result continue to expand on a world basis.
I know that full details without obligation and in confidence (you don’t even have to give your name) can be obtained by phoning 0844 800 9359.
Kenneth Eckersley.
Hi Brian. I think you raise interesting points that unfortunately they have no one answer. I think there definitely is a gap to be filled in service provision but also note that often the processes people go through to find and maintain recovery are the same for ‘both’ alcohol and drug users. I guess drug use is more ‘high profile’ that alcohol use and this exacerbates the problem. More discussions like these, awareness raising, lobbying etc must come and we’ll be here to support you all!
Hi Zack, liked your comment, yet I am writing from my heart, you are reading from a fully blown up alcoholic. Full stop. can’t get out of that catergory.
I have this to deal for life. Is totally life threatening and many a day it pucker scares me. I know I am a new member so please everyone who reads this just accept this is what I know and believe I am, am not interseted in any debate on this subject, if that makes caring sense to all you members.
WELCOME To Wired-In
Hi Martin, … Brian here, the writer/editor of this page and i will say that i am completely in agreement that you are what YOU name yourself be it alcoholic or any other name. I was so shocked to see such a statement on wired in = “not sure there is such thing as an alcoholic”. (Would Love To See Why Zac Feels This Way – Are You In Recovery From Alcohol Abuse/Dependency?)
Firstly, EVERYONE has the right to their own thoughts BUT saying there is no such thing as an alcoholic is not right when people have right to call themselves the name they are comfortable with and even if i dont agree or if i do agree … i would never say there was no such thing as an alcoholic … especially when working in services to help people in recovery or seeking recovery ..
My views and beliefs are if anyone wants to call themself an alcoholic and stand on their head 12hrs per day, and its their way of staying away from alcohol .. Fantastic and support them.
As to you Martin … You are FULLY accepted here and dont need to worry about that, and you wont have any problems /debate here and there is great team of people on Wired-In and you will be happy to be member, so stick around and heres from one non drinker – alcoholic OR a boozer – a drunk, whatever anyone names me, its what I call myself and nobody should call anyone an alcoholic apart from the person themselves and i fully support you for saying you are a full blown alcoholic. It means you know you are being positive and realised you have a problem with alcohol and are doing something about it
Regards,
Brian
@
Alcohol Peer Support Services (APSS)
P.S. I hope my messages/posts come across OK here and i dont write my messages as if i am angry, as sometimes i read back my posts and worry that people take me the wrong way when i say everything in such a caring nice way and maybe comes across better when speaking and not writing, maybe i need to learn that area, IF i do come across as little annoyed or angry. (Dont Mean To Be)
Brian – thanks for caring comment – did sort of ponder on where he was coming from. Lets leave it at this. As this is your blog.
If Zack wants to write a blog about the subject, then comments can be put in hopefully in a constructive abd caring way. teach others about the subject, wet houses etc.
Dear Sarah,
Whilst there is a popular mis-conception that drug addiction and alcoholism are two different beasts requiring two different forms of help to achieve recovery, when it comes to training people to escape from their habit, the lessons needed are the same for each person.
The main effect of any form of substance addiction – including alcohol – is loss of control of one’s life to the substance involved and / or to it’s suppliers.
No-one can live another person’s life for them. It is strictly a do-it-for-yourself activity. So is deciding to use any addictive substance and so escaping from the resulting addiction is also a do-it-for-yourself activity – as long as you know “how” to do “it” for yourself.
And the beauty of learning to handle your own substance problem is that that learning stays with you for life.
True “recovery” is no more nor less that a return to the natural state of relaxed abstinence into which 99% of the population is born. Anything less than this is illogical and inhumane.
The control of the addict imposed by “treatment” adds to the control already imposed by the substance itself, instead of going in the direction of returning control to the individual.
On a world-wide basis, two-thirds of addicts trained in self-help recovery achieve that stste in 16 to 28 weeks at a cost roughly equal to the total costs to the taxpayer of three years on methadone.
This is not an advert. Just a statement of fact.
Kenneth Eckersley,
C.E.O. Addiction Recovery Training Services.
Welcome to Wired in Martin. Other that offering my support for Brian’s original blog that’s all I wanted to say. Take care all.
With regards to my earlier statement “there is no such thing as an alcoholic” I suppose it sounds like a bit of a cop out to me. There is no such diagnosis unless your also saying there are also shopaholics and Manchester United addicts. There are no addictive genes or medical reasons that anyone drinks excessively.Drinking is not caused it is a matter of choice.
